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Author
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Topic: Let me get this straight...
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Cacophonous
Sarge
Member # 19
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posted 10-05-2004 06:24 PM
    
If the mere presence on Iraqi soil of members of al-Qaeda can be seen as solid evidence of their link with Saddam Hussein, need we not see the presence of al-Qaeda members on US soil as solid evidence of their link to George W. Bush. And if not, why? Has to work both ways. Are you as a statesman responsible for the actions of every individual that lives on the territory you manage? I personally don't think so. Can someone talk to that Rumsfeldfella about trying to make sense once and for all? -------------------- ...
Posts: 5571 | From: Yes | Registered: Jun 1999 | IP: Logged
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AcidWarp
Sarge
Member # 997
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posted 10-06-2004 12:44 AM
Heh, but Osama was US supported when he took part in a holy war against Russia in Afgahnistan.So he was a terrorist then. He's a terrorist now. I see no difference. -------------------- “I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road.” “Intelligence is the ability to adapt to change.” --Dr. Stephen Hawking.
Posts: 4363 | From: Waterloo, Ontario | Registered: Nov 1999 | IP: Logged
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jondster
Sarge
Member # 109
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posted 10-07-2004 08:51 AM
I'd think that Bin Laden would have done what he did whether we trained him or not. And if he didn't do it, some other Islamo-Facist would have.I also think it's amusing where you Liberals and New-World-Order types choose to draw the line, or even draw it at all. You indignantly get in Halliburton's shit, all the while figuring it's OK for the prick in Iraq to stay in power and murder hundreds of thousands of his own people just as long as he keeps shipping the oil and buying the arms. I guess he's gotta wheel-barrow a device with a 1 megaton yield or 50 kilos of anthrax into downtown Tel Aviv before you'll condone a pre-emptive strike because you "need the proof before you act". Meanwhile, "Food for Oil" is working just fine. Right. -------------------- No Sig
Posts: 2128 | From: Cascade MI USA | Registered: Jun 1999 | IP: Logged
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jondster
Sarge
Member # 109
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posted 10-07-2004 12:21 PM
Yeah. I remember this old line "The only reason women have vaginas is so that men will talk to them" - amusing but now you can paraphrase "The only reason Arabs have oil is so that WE will tolerate them". A little too much greed reflected in oil prices and you might find a good excuse for a little "ethnic cleansing". "You got it and we're willing to pay for it. Play nice or we're gonna come and take it away from you". You think that can't happen ? -------------------- No Sig
Posts: 2128 | From: Cascade MI USA | Registered: Jun 1999 | IP: Logged
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J0SH
Sarge
Member # 103
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posted 10-07-2004 02:44 PM
You forget it's THEIR oil. If they want to charge us $500 a barrel they have every right to. It's our own dumbass fault for becoming so dependent on THEIR oil.
...Imagine...
-------------------- I am.
Posts: 1591 | From: buffalo new york | Registered: Jun 1999 | IP: Logged
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Cacophonous
Sarge
Member # 19
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posted 10-07-2004 07:08 PM
jon - The dog my parents had when I was a young teenager was a pitbull. It was a very cool, smart and friendly dog. outrider/jon - I posted the original thread simply as a thought. I guess I had an idea and just wanted feedback. I didn't seriously mean that our president should be strung up or anything. Lately almost every Iraqi I hear talk are very negative about the conditions there. Many claim they have had no electicity, water in many months, years, etc, and can't walk the streets. They feel like prisoners staying locked in their homes. Some felt that they had more freedom before the liberation took place. I don't know for sure but just what I am hearing lately. -------------------- ...
Posts: 5571 | From: Yes | Registered: Jun 1999 | IP: Logged
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jondster
Sarge
Member # 109
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posted 10-08-2004 08:54 AM
Cac ~ re: the dog. Then you're one of the few. It seems many get the things and bring them up to be vicious. But I agree with your premise. A friend of mine just got back from Iraq, being there on business for Herman Miller (selling office furniture). He had discussions with many Iraqis there regarding this. Summary would be: Yes, the place is more restrictive and dangerous. Why ? Because WE are there. Every Western-hating Muslim terrorist and terrorist-wannabe heads straight there, looking for trouble and a quick ticket to paradise. However, if we hadn't been there in the first place, the "business as usual" scenario was less than pleasant if you were on the wrong side of the prevalent philosophy from "town hall". In Saddam's environment, you had a dictatorship where any dissent could get you a quick trip to a shallow grave. In his absense, the only alternative to the current situation is a trip in time back to the 4th century where if the mullahs catch you with your hand in the cookie jar, your name will soon be "Lefty". But they realize things are improving and will improve vastly as time goes on. Unfortunately this process doesn't come cheap ... to them or us. They don't like it but they accept it as a requisite. -------------------- No Sig
Posts: 2128 | From: Cascade MI USA | Registered: Jun 1999 | IP: Logged
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Wintermute
Sarge
Member # 1307
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posted 10-08-2004 07:43 PM
After 2 wars and 10+ years of economic sanctions Iraq's economy, infrastructure, etc have deteriorated significantly. The country has hundreds of billions of dollars in debt, and their oil facilities and pipelines have become sub standard not to mention falling under constant attacks of sabotage. While their existing limited oil revenues are going to pay off debt and pay US contractors to rebuilt Iraq, we will be at the mercy of OPEC, and all of the different factors that the major producers use to determine prices including the shit we stirred up in Iraq and pure greed of course. At this point I have no doubt that Bush wants America to be militarily and economically superior in the world, but I'm not convinced he cares what we pay for fuel too much at the moment, so who knows how long it will be before we experience lower gas prices if at all. Regardless, make no mistake. The control of Iraqi oil is a primary objective among other things such as strategic placement of our military and our influence in the region.[ 10-08-2004: Message edited by: Wintermute ] -------------------- Verdammt durch das Fleisch. Gerettet durch das Blut.
Posts: 519 | From: Qwghlm | Registered: Dec 1999 | IP: Logged
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20 20
Sarge
Member # 358
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posted 10-11-2004 01:31 PM
Sniff.... sniff...I smell something, but it ain't oil...
Oh, wait... That would be me being complacent again...
So, then, nevermind... Oh, btw, hi Cac!!!  [ 10-11-2004: Message edited by: 20 20 ]
Posts: 3232 | From: | Registered: Jul 1999 | IP: Logged
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20 20
Sarge
Member # 358
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posted 10-11-2004 01:38 PM
Oh, and as far as Cheney and Halibut..., er, Halliburton:
http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx@DocID=261.html But, it's too much fun to believe in the evilness of Cheney when you're a democrat (or non-American)... Oh, wait... sniff... sniff...
There's that oil smell again! Damn!
Posts: 3232 | From: | Registered: Jul 1999 | IP: Logged
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Wintermute
Sarge
Member # 1307
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posted 10-12-2004 04:30 AM
I think the Halliburton/Cheney connection is suspect, and believe the accusations are probably true in light of the companies previous legal record with and without Cheney as CEO.This page doesn't touch upon the legal aspects too much, but does pose some quesions I wish Cheney would answer. 10 Questions for Dick Cheney quote:
Heh, I thought most had gotten over that little bit of fantasy. Guess not.
lol... yeah, whatever. -------------------- Verdammt durch das Fleisch. Gerettet durch das Blut.
Posts: 519 | From: Qwghlm | Registered: Dec 1999 | IP: Logged
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20 20
Sarge
Member # 358
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posted 10-12-2004 09:40 AM
quote:
lol... yeah, whatever.
Oh, yeah, I forgot. It IS about oil. Bush and Cheney are evil, evil, men. Killing thousands so they and their friends can make a bundle on all that Iraqi oil. Evil. Hey, did you hear about the payoff they gave to Bin Laden for getting this whole thing started? I hear it's a one time payoff of $50,000, not much, granted, but he also gets 20% of all the profits, PLUS royalties on reruns!!! Pretty smart of them to get ol' Binny started way back in the early 90's, to throw us off the track, eh? But we're to smart for that! We know! We KNOW!! Evil, evil, men. May they burn in hell.
Posts: 3232 | From: | Registered: Jul 1999 | IP: Logged
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outrider
Sarge
Member # 41
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posted 10-12-2004 10:24 AM
40, you must remember The Matrix was a film cherished by millions of geeks. The premise of which being the actual victims of energy needs and desires of machines gave way to feelings of righteousness in a world where Neo was savior of humanity in its entirety. The concept dug deep and held tight with steady RATM groove. For a few divx'd hours geeks could sit in dark rooms and nod knowingly at the machine(government) doom. Once enlightened they could then choose between the blue and red pill and see just how deep the rabbit hole went along the beltways and highways where integras and eclipses sucked hard upon oily greasy nipples as their drivers, full of coppertop wisdoms, cruised the streets of America content in their knowledge of a spoonless society."Did they say why, why they want to terminate my command?" "I was sent on a classified mission, sir." "It's no longer classified, is it? Did they tell you?" "They told me that you had gone totally insane, and that your methods were unsound." "Are my methods unsound?" "I don't see any method at all, sir." "I expected someone like you. What did you expect? Are you an assassin?' "I'm a soldier." "You're neither. You're an errand boy, sent by grocery clerks, to collect a bill."
Posts: 2426 | From: nc | Registered: Jun 1999 | IP: Logged
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outrider
Sarge
Member # 41
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posted 10-12-2004 11:17 AM
Seriously though 40, it is about oil. I've given it some thought the last few months. Broch was right all along. SO is Mute. How can it not be about oil? Certainly it is also about israel, but oil cannot be forgotten. Without the need for ME oil and the protection of israel, would we really have a "need" to spread democracy throughout the ME?We need the oil. We'd like to pay for it and gosh darnit wouldn't it be nice if the wealth was spread around throughout the ME building schools and hospitals for the common arabs? But it has never been. And never will be with the current ME structure. But I don't think mute is really too concerned about that, he's more concerned with halliburton, cheney and neo. All the wealth is held by the dictators and royalty of the ME leaving the common arab to fester in poverty and learn preached hatred towards us over the years. Another crappy religion becomes focal point in correcting the wrongs of the west, to make the have nots get even with the haves. So it most certainly has to do with oil in some sense, but bush didn't create this situation and I can even see why the current admin would like to spread democracy throughout the region to make it easier in the future to meet our oil needs. Bush nor kerry can come right out and say that, now can they? They have to talk around it. Or keep the sanctions going like clinton did for eight years. Housewife Suzy really doesn't want to kill a few arab kids just to fill her Expedition up at the pump, she'd like to see them happy on playgrounds purchased by oil money, getting ready for 4 yrs at Baghdad U, but she needs gas to take her kids to practice. Most common arabs would prefer western oil companies over asian oil companies because while we may be forceful at times, those asian companies are really rude about the whole deal. The bad thing is, now that the situation has been created, even if we develop an alternative fuel, the mindset of the ME will still demand the west to fix their problems and will point at us as reason they exist whether we still need their oils or not 50 years from now unless the dictators and royal families start doing something to make their sandy regions something more than just about oil.
Posts: 2426 | From: nc | Registered: Jun 1999 | IP: Logged
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UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
posted 10-06-2004 12:00 PM
posted 10-07-2004 05:27 AM
